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What Julie Brown Found When She Broke the Unwritten Speaker Style Rules

If you search "what to wear as a keynote speaker," you will find no shortage of rules. No open-toed shoes. No shorts. Nothing too feminine. Nothing that might undermine your credibility. Women have been reading these lists for years, and somewhere along the way the rules just become part of how you get dressed, whether they actually fit you or not.


Julie Brown is a fully booked keynote speaker and author with a national platform and a packed travel schedule. She was also putting enormous time, money, and energy into her clothes and still not feeling good in them. Her body was changing. Her schedule was brutal. And at some point, something had to give.


In this episode of The Visibility Shift, I'm talking with Julie about the unwritten speaker dress code that was quietly running her wardrobe, what finally pushed her to ask for help, and what she found on the other side when she stopped playing by rules that were never really hers to begin with.


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3:21 – How Julie realized her style on stage didn’t come close to matching the energy and presence she brings to a room

7:10 – The specific breaking point that finally made Julie stop DIY‑ing her wardrobe and start seeing style strategy as an essential business asset

13:23 – How perimenopause affected Julie and invisible speaker “rules” that quietly dictated her style

22:24 – The feeling on the other side after taking risks in going against the rules

26:58 – Hyperhidrosis and other surprises that forced a complete rethink of what feeling good on stage and prepared on the road looks like for Julie

31:08 – How claiming more feminine, playful pieces on stage didn’t erode Julie’s credibility, but expanded her confidence, networking power, and sense of what her brand can hold

36:22 – Julie’s words of advice if you’re feeling stuck with your current style

38:02 – Final reflections and one last question for you to consider


Mentioned In What Julie Brown Found When She Broke the Unwritten Speaker Style Rules


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Full Transcript

Ellie Steinbrink: Welcome to The Visibility Shift, the podcast where style becomes your most powerful strategy for being seen, standing out, and leading boldly. I'm Ellie Steinbrink, stylist and personal brand coach, and if you've ever thought, my style just isn't working anymore, take this as your sign. You're ready for your next level. And instead of launching into a panicked shopping spree, what you really need is a strategy. A style strategy that reflects where you're headed, not who you used to be or who you think you need to be to fit in. Because when your style aligns with your brand and your vision, everything shifts. You lead with more presence, you attract the right opportunities and clients, and you fully step into the woman you're becoming. Because showing up as yourself, that's the most strategic thing you can do. Now, let's get visible.


Welcome back to another episode of The Visibility Shift. I'm thrilled to introduce you to one of my clients, Julie Brown, today. Julie is a keynote speaker, a fully booked-out keynote speaker, and author of This Shit Works. Her whole platform is rewiring how people think about networking. So as a side note, if you're interested in networking, this is a great woman to follow. But what I want you to know what's coming for you is an incredible conversation about things I know you're struggling with, whether you're a speaker or not, whether you're just a leader that is in a highly visible role that needs to show up and be on and feel great every time you do.


Some of the themes you're going to hear in today's conversation is the plethora, the overwhelming amount of rules that, whether you're a speaker or whether you're in some other industry, the amount of rules that have been given to us over the years about how we need to show up and how difficult it can be to navigate those rules in an effort to find your own personal style. What I think you're going to hear, what I know you're going to hear from Julie, is how she broke through that fear of holding onto these rules and loosened her grip and what she discovered on the other side. You're going to hear from her about the point at which she broke and realized, I just can't keep stressing myself out about dressing myself anymore. I really need to ask for help. 


You're going to hear probably hear yourself in that story. And you're also going to hear a lot of talk around what it's like to navigate body changes. If you're someone who is in middle life, going through perimenopause or menopause, postmenopause, and you're experiencing body changes, this is something we also talk about in this conversation. One, just to normalize that it happens, but two, to actually give you tools to navigate this difficult time in life, especially when it comes to dressing ourselves and still being visible on top of it. And with that, let's get right to the show.


Julie, welcome to the show.

Julie Brown: Hey, thanks for having me. So good to see your face again.

Ellie Steinbrink: I'm so excited for this conversation. You and I have had a lot of fun. At least that's how I would describe it. We'll see how you describe it. But I've found this to be a really fun process from many different aspects. But as I was preparing for this, I went back to your original intake form long ago.

And one of the questions I have in there is, how would you describe your style? And your answer was, I don't know if you remember your answer, but your answer was, I don't have one. When I was back in corporate, it was very defined because we had dress codes. But now that I'm out on my own and you've been out doing this thing on your own for quite a while now, you had said, I'm really just trying to discover what my signature style is. So if you could bring us back to that time where you maybe felt yourself floundering, what did it feel like to not feel like you had a signature style when you're someone who's up on stage invisible all the time?

Julie Brown: Yeah. When I worked in corporate, so when I did business development corporate, my morning started so early. So I worked in construction. So my morning started, like eight o'clock was late. Eight o'clock is late in construction. So I had a signature style, which was, I wore a dress every day because it was one piece of clothing and that's all I had to worry about. And so I spent time on my hair and my makeup, but then I just wore a dress and either heels or boots or whatever.

So it was quite easy to have a signature style back then. Like every single picture of me for my 17 years in corporate, that's what I was wearing. And then I became a speaker, and so many speakers, when I was, you know, analyzing other speakers, they seem to have this signature style that they would wear on stage, whether it was, they were wearing Jordans or whether they had like always had, like, Cassandra Worthy always has a t-shirt with her, like the outline of her on it, or other ones always had a signature color. And I felt like, I felt like a little bit like, well, what am I supposed to wear? You know, because I didn't want to wear a dress every day anymore. And I also just didn't know what was acceptable on stage.

And now you have to understand about what's on stages too, is there's all different heights of stages. So sometimes, sometimes you don't have a stage, and you're at the exact level as the audience, and sometimes you're up high. So you have to worry about, like, what is the view up?

If you know what I mean? So there's so many things to think about that I just got overwhelmed with it.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. So how did you navigate that then? I mean, what, before we started working together, what did you kind of pin as your signature style, or did you never really feel like you got there?

Julie Brown: I would wear jeans. I would wear jeans and Betsey Johnson sneakers because for the first couple years I spoke on stages, I wore heels, and I was always afraid of tripping and falling. And I was always afraid. Like I was just, my feet were tired. You know what I mean? And so Betsy Johnson sparkly sneakers became my signature style.

And then I would wear jeans and, you know, a blazer. Orange is one of my favorite colors. So I would wear orange blazers a lot, but then I would look at pictures, and I was like, I don't know, it doesn't look great. You know? So, like, I had, I kind of ended up with a style that was, was serving and not serving at the same time.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. It was kind of like a little glimpse of you, but maybe not like the full effort. Was it uncomfortable for you to be on stage and just kind of feel like, you know, this is like, I feel like I'm halfway there, like fully there, or what was that like for you?

Julie Brown: I never felt uncomfortable on stage. I felt uncomfortable after I got photography back. And I was like, oh, there you go. Like sometimes you don't know what misses the mark until you see photography and you're like, well shit, that didn't, that, that, that didn't look great.

Ellie Steinbrink It's always the photograph. In fact, I was just talking with another client. She said the exact same thing about getting photographed at a conference. She wasn't a speaker, but it was just one of those, you know, stand in front, you know, get your photo taken. And she had sort of that awful. Oh, that's what it looked like sort of moment.

So I remember, I don't know, sometime last year, after we had started working together, you had made a post on LinkedIn and you were talking about just how you never thought you were going to be a person that would ask for help with your style, but there was also like a lot of things building in terms of it being really costly for you to keep doing it on your own. Can you explain for listeners who, who probably have not seen that post, what brought you to this point of saying, okay, I'm ready?

Julie Brown: Well, there are a couple of things. It's like, I'm like, I'm going to be 50 in March. So there was a part of me that was like, you're a grown ass woman. Like, why can't you dress yourself? Like you've been dressing yourself, you know, mildly successfully for half a century. Like, why can't you dress yourself now?

So there was that piece, but there was also, I was spending a tremendous amount of money on clothes that didn't look good. And I didn't know they didn't look good until I got the photography back. And one thing you have to understand about being a speaker who is on the road all the time is once you pack it and you go and you go and you fly and you get late at night and you have a, you know, a seven o'clock tech check, like there's no, you better have packed the right outfit.

Ellie Steinbrink: There's no going back.

Julie Brown: There's no going back. Like, and so for me, it was the stress of I would, I would spiral before trips, like, and I would buy all of these clothes and I wouldn't wear them. And there's still clothes in my closet that have like tags on them that I'm like, wow, I should not have bought that. But anyways, you know, so I was spending money and I was spending time like an emotional capital on clothes, which is like, should not have been where my energy and my resources, as far as running a national international speaking business were best suited.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. And it is funny and I will hear this. It's a weird theme that I hear from women, especially like high achieving women, is that why do we think that we all need to have this style gene?

Like we have to be experts at dressing ourselves. Where did that come from? You know, that's probably another one of those rules that we'll get to talking about here, but it is sort of a weird one. It's like, you're such an incredible speaker and all these other skill sets you have, like, why do we think that then we need to be an expert at dressing ourselves? But it really does hold a lot of women back and creates a lot of frustration and energy depletion, which is what you're describing. Right. And at some point you're just like, something's got to give.

Julie Brown: Yeah, that was the point for me where I was like, I remembered I was just like I had I'd spent so much energy on this conference that I was being videoed in, you know, professional videography because I'm working on a new speaker reel. And when I got the video back, I was like, oh, my God, I look terrible. Like why? Like I'm spending all this energy and money and I don't think I look good, you know?

Ellie Steinbrink: And the results are still not what you want them to be.

Julie Brown: Yeah. Yeah. And anybody who knows anything about paying for videography, it ain't cheap.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah, exactly. Like you want to make the most of it. What did then? I mean, obviously, that's what like sort of broke the camel's back. But how did then you actually make the leap? What was it that made you decide to let's go?

Julie Brown: So I was on my biggest stage of my career up until that point was in Omaha, was the Women's Conference in Omaha. And that's, you know, a roughly 3000 people and it's professionally done photography and professional videography. And I spent so much energy on what I was going to wear that day. And I actually liked what I wore that day. Like I'm not I liked what I wore that day. I liked the outfit. But then I saw Kelly and Kelly just had this style and it seemed like her clothes matched her book, matched her energy, matched everything. And I was like, well, I want that. And so I introduced myself to Kelly. Kelly and I had spoken a little bit prior to the conference, but I spoke with her at the conference and commented on her style. She actually said, well, oh, well, my stylist is here. And I was like, oh, your stylist is here. So you didn't do this all by yourself.

Ellie Steinbrink: Right. It was like your permission to say, OK, you know, this is a thing. And this is this is an opportunity I can't ignore anymore.

Julie Brown: Yeah.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. I mean, it is a lot of extra pressure and kudos to you for taking that leap, because all the things you're describing may seem like, OK, yeah, you got to a breaking point and you were realizing the frustration. But still, even then, I think it can be difficult for women to take that action to actually invest in themselves and trust, trust someone else with this very visible aspect of their you know, their being. Yeah. Can you talk about that? Did it did it feel when we you know, like that's a big risk. That's a big risk that you took, I think, for anybody, you know, when it's like you're sharing with somebody or giving permission for someone else to help co-create part of your brand. What was that like?

Julie Brown: You know, I have a business manager, Kate, and I all financial decisions, all, you know, Julie Brown speaks decisions are a conversation between me and Kate. And Kate knew how stressed out I was about my travel schedule. And so what people have to understand is I will fly to an event, be there, fly home, have to fly out a day later to go to another like another event. So for me, it was just the stress of unpacking, repacking and like and not being happy with what I was packing. And so I went to Kate and said, I think this is something that the brand needs to do. And Kate, without without hesitation said, that's a great investment. And so once your business manager is like, yeah, let's let's invest in this. That's what I pay her for. I pay her to help me make financial decisions and brand decisions. And she was like, no hesitation. She's like, go do that.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. Love it. I want to go to that to that point where we before we ever started looking at clothes or shopping, there was a there was a ramp up period, right, where we do some foundational work. And that's where we start to set the vision for what you want and how you see yourself in your next evolution of Julie and your brand. That's where we kind of pull back some layers in terms of what might be holding you back, what rules and expectations. What surprised I want to dig into the rules and expectations. But before I get to that question, I'm curious what surprised you about that? It was a roughly month long time period where we were meeting over Zoom and talking through a variety of things. What stood out to you with those first several interactions we had?

Julie Brown: Well, I think what was really interesting was when I looked at other speakers that I really or doesn't even have to be speakers like just people with style, like style boards and stuff like that. I was not buying clothes that fit the style I wanted. Like, you know, it's so obvious now that like when you put a style board together and you're like, this is what I really like. And then you look at what you bought and you're like, well, that doesn't compute, you know, like, so.

Ellie Steinbrink: Can I ask why do you think you weren't buying those things?

Julie Brown: Because I didn't know how they would look on me. And so another thing people have to understand is women who are, you know, 49, 50, like our bodies are going through a lot with perimenopause. And I shared this with you in one of our meetings. I was a marathon runner for years, which I also had zero chest when I talk about no breasts whatsoever. And then I went into perimenopause and the hormone changes, I suddenly had boobs and I didn't know what to do with them. Like they were like a foreign object on my body. And like I even say to my husband, I'm like, look, boobs, like, you know, what do I do with these? So like, I was so used to like dressing for being flat chested. And then all of a sudden I was like, I have no idea how to dress myself on the top. And like, things are always like, things are changing. And like, so there's just a lot going on with my body too, that I was like, so uncertain of what would look good.

Ellie Steinbrink: So, yeah, I think you're, uh, anyone who's listening and obviously I'm right here in the same zone where it feels like daily, there's a new landmine that, you know, launches on you and you're like, well, I wasn't expecting that. And you know, what always used to work on your body, maybe doesn't work as well now, or it just doesn't, even if sometimes, you know, like you don't even change weight or size, just the way it fits on your body now is different. It's just like, yeah, it's body composition. It's all these things. And it, it does throw you for a loop. Let's talk a little bit about, I think some of these have kind of come up in our conversation, but when we got to the point of talking about, listen, there's rules and standards and expectations that no matter who you are, where you've grown, you know, were raised, no matter what your profession is, these slowly creep into your psyche over time. And that can be everything from, you know, I was teased about my body as a little girl on the playground, or it can be, you know, for you, like you were working in a construction industry when you first started, and then you were speaking to many of those audiences. And so, you know, you had even said there was a perception about how you needed to show up in those particular settings. Can you think back and share some of those rules that we uncovered during that introductory period that you realized, oh, maybe this is affecting how I'm actually showing up and getting dressed?

Julie Brown: Well, I think one of the big things we talked about, and it was an ongoing dialogue with some of the other female speakers, was this idea of open-toed shoes that can wear on stage.

Ellie Steinbrink: Oh my gosh. Yes.

Julie Brown: And I remember I had never worn open-toed shoes on stage because I had seen somewhere that it was like a dialogue about whether or not it was professional and acceptable. And I remember thinking, I remember bringing it up to you and you were like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Like, and I was like, no, this is what, I'm like, this is what we deal with on the daily. Like I, it's so funny, like, and I would never say, like, I would never begrudge somebody else's style, but like Gary Vaynerchuk can get up in a ripped t-shirt and sneakers and everybody hangs on to every word he says, but it's a different standard for women. Like we're, we're talking about whether or not we can have our toes showing, you know what I mean? And I remember one of the first things we did together is we bought me, we, we, we, well, I bought them and I was like, we're going to put these into style.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yes. Yes.

Julie Brown: I bought these crazy Betsey Johnson sandals and I remember I bought them and then I showed them to you and I was like, can we, can we do this? And I remember within like a week or so I had worn them to an event and those shoes, I gotta be honest, those shoes had their own conference, like so many people came up to me and were like taking pictures of my shoes. I like did a post about the shoes, like about how, like what a statement they were. And so many people wanted to talk to me about this. And I was like, see, it's not unprofessional. It's just like it had, but it had to be me. Like I had to find the shoe that was like the open-toed shoe that was a representative of like the Betsey Johnson sparkly sneaker. I needed to find that in an open-toed shoe.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. And I think, you know, what's the fear there that you wear an open-toed shoe and then they're going to be raked across the coals because God forbid, right. Female speaker wore an open-toed shoe. So there is sort of this, you know, like underlying, just don't, just don't push, don't push the envelope because what might happen? Will I get canceled? Like, will people then start taking photos and my photos of my feet are going to be like rolling around the internet or…

Julie Brown: You know, if I could figure out how to put my feet on OnlyFans I would. Okay. So like, I'm not even kidding. Like I'm a second side hustle as an OnlyFans feet girl, like I'll do it. Right.

Ellie Steinbrink: And then the better have those shoes on your feet too. But it is it, you know, we laugh about it, but it is crazy. And that wasn't the only rule that you had talked about. I mean, there were, we got to the point of, you remember I showed you because it was very in line with your brand. It was, we went into do it, go with a shorts suit. So it was very polished. And we originally had, it was presented to you in multiple colors, you know, all within whatever, you know, your brand zone was not just orange and Navy blue, but we, I remember we were go expanding out of that. But I'm thinking, you know, everything I know about Julie, she's a firecracker. Your words were playful, loud, and structured. One of the first things that came to my mind when we were doing visioning was this like tailored short suit. And so I presented it to you. And do you want to share how you felt about that?

Julie Brown: I, I pushed back on it. Like, I remember being like, I'm not sure this would be accepted on stage. And it like, as a marathon runner, as somebody like I am five two, but my, and we joked about this all the time, like I'm five two, but my legs go up to my chin. Like I have zero torso. So like wearing shorts, like in every day, like I love my legs. They're very muscular. They, they look good, especially even for a 50 year old, you know? But I had this holding back of like, I don't, if I, it was a skirt, it would have been different than it was shorts, you know? And so I remember just being like, I'm not sure I can wear this on stage. And we did it anyways. We did it anyways, and I've worn it twice and, and people have loved it. Loved the orange short, short suit. But again, it took a while to convince me to do it.

Ellie Steinbrink: It did. You had to take some time away. I know you, I remember talking about...

Julie Brown: I wore it to a wedding first. Remember? I wore it to a wedding first. I like tried it out at a wedding.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yes. But I think this is where we can really get in our own ways because, you know, would you have ever considered that before? Because it was like, no, there's all these rules and barriers. Yeah. Barriers to like, that's just not acceptable. And I get it because you're like, you're saying if you're up on a higher stage in some scenarios, even this would be true of dresses, you know, it's like, or if you're sitting down, you know, we got to be conscious of all those things. But at the same time, I think those rules over time just become so constrictive that you're done. You're left, you're left with so little options. Yeah. That it's hard to work within that.

And I think that's one of the most fun things I get to do with my clients is just kind of break them out of that mindset and open them up to, hey, what could be and let's challenge, you know, your thinking. And even though I feel like we really, you did an amazing job of letting yourself go there, letting yourself be open to it. But what have you felt on the other side of taking some of these risks? What was it like when you started to do some of these things or show up in a way that was a little bit edgier, maybe then what kind of energy did you feel?

Julie Brown: Well, it's so funny because I think what people maybe who aren't speakers have to realize is there's a lot of things to think about on stage. There are, where is our mic placement? Is our mic placement here or is it on our shirt? If it's here, we have to be worried, worrisome of what kind of earrings we wear because it could click the mic. If it's here, we have to be worrisome of what kind of necklaces we wear. We always have to figure out like, where's the mic pack going to be? So do we wear a belt and it's on the back or do we put it inside? There are so many things to think about in your actual, like the actual AVIT set up that your clothes affect. So I just wanted to talk about that first.

But what I think was very interesting about our work together is I discovered that I could still be edgy and feminine at the same time. And I think I had given up femininity prior to, I'd given up my femininity to be edgy and relatable to a lot of the construction, engineering, energy conferences and audiences that I was working with. And us working together, that Sync-A-Sept dress that now has become infamous that everybody loves is so feminine.

And I never would have picked that dress to be on stage because I would have thought, and this is again, what goes through our heads, you know, as professional speakers is I need to be taken seriously. And this dress is a little too feminine for me to be taken seriously. And I got to be honest that I, when I wear that dress, I get on stage and I absolutely kill it because that dress is so, that dress is a statement in and of itself. Just like the shoes were. But I definitely gave up my feminine side. 

And I am like, listen, I'm a tough bitch. Like I grew up, you know, I spent 17 years in construction, but I gave up. So I had given up my feminine side for so long that even when I got on stage, I feel like I doubled down on it, on not being a feminine speaker. Because just to be honest, only 25% of keynote stages are given to women. 75% of the speaking industry is men. So like, I felt like I had to be a dude on stage in order to be taken seriously. And what I discovered was I was actually more comfortable being feminine on stage, feminine and funny and like feminine in a Nikki Glaser kind of way, not in like, you know, but like, and so it helped me feel more confident on stage. Like, oh, I actually can be feminine and funny and bold and brash all at the same time.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. And I know you guys haven't heard Julie speak. You probably should, you should definitely go get her book and hear her speak, but you can probably get a glimpse through our conversation that she's funny as hell and her energy. And because I had the chance to see her on stage that day that we met your energy is off the charts. And I remember thinking, as we were working together, you know, there was nothing wrong with your outfit that day, but that outfit did not even get close to matching the energy that you have and the uniqueness that you have when you're on stage. And I love that you're talking about your feminine side as well, because that is something that is such a common thread.

It's not only true for you as a speaker. It's true for many other women in different industries, obviously construction. I work with a lot of women in the financial industry, and it's a common theme that they feel like we have to hide parts of ourselves in order to be credible, in order to be professional, in order to be earn our spot. And kudos to you for being willing to just sort of break through that and say, you know, enough of this. And I think what you're describing is when you break through to the other side, what we imagine is everything's going to fall apart, you know, credibility is going to lack, but it's actually the opposite of what ends up happening.

Julie Brown: Yeah.

Ellie Steinbrink: You know, all these things you actually really want, which is that total freedom on stage to like feel like you're actually just being yourself, like that is where it happens.

Julie Brown: Yeah.

Ellie Steinbrink: What about, were there any other rules that came up for you outside of, you know, speaker dress code rules? Do you remember anything else you wanted to share?

Julie Brown: Well, we had a problem. All right. So what the listeners should know is our main issue with me is I have hyperhidrosis. So I sweat uncontrollably. Like Whitney Houston ain't got anything on me, if everybody knows what I'm talking about here. Like I, so my clothes, we had, we were constricted in the clothing we could pick for me because it had to be able to be worn on stage and absorb sweat without like showing sweat.

And I remember that was something we had to think about really heavily in our, in our conversations, because I will not wear something on stage that sweat will show through. And I sweat everywhere. Like I'm sweating, I'm sweating under my armpits. I'm sweating in these titties I didn't have before. You know, like I'm sweating at my back. You know, when the, when the mic pack is on you and it's hot on your back, like my back is sweating. Like I am a disgusting pig. So I needed like the clothes to like, which is why structured was like a big word for us, because I needed the clothes to hold its shape, even with how much like my body was producing sweat wise.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. Although I would say that from the time when we first started talking about it at the beginning of the journey about what was in, what was out, you know, in terms of like, this is going to show, and this is not, I feel like you push the boundaries even a little, because one of the issues we talked about was certain colors. And we ended up exploring a lot of color that I don't know. I mean, it felt like maybe you were not open to entertaining, you know, prior. And so there was even, there was growth on that end for you, even though, yeah, we did have to be cognizant of things, but there was a way to push it there.

Julie Brown: It's actually more the material than the color.

Ellie Steinbrink: What would you say was the most surprising thing about this experience?

Julie Brown: I think there's two surprising things. I think I already mentioned one. I think I was surprised that I wanted to be so feminine on stage, which was so against like, when I, even though I wore a dress every day when I went to, when I was working in construction, doing client development in construction, like, I was very much a dude. Like, I was very, like, I was one of the guys, like, even, I was a guy in a skirt, you know? Yeah. So I was actually surprised that I embraced a more feminine look.

And I remember when I got my colors back and I was sunlit summer, I was so upset because I was like, sunlit summer my ass. Like, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't wear pastels. And like, I remember like being so upset about it. Yes, you were. So that, that surprised me. But I think also what surprised me was just how more relaxed I am preparing for events now. But I go into my closet and I'm like, okay, I'm going to wear this. I know it looks good. Fold it up, put it in.

Like, I know it's easy to iron. Like, cause that's another thing you have to think about when you travel for business a lot is like, how hard is it to iron this thing the next day? Now I will say that the chink except dress. Yeah. It's a commitment. It needs, it's a commitment. I bring a, you know, a steamer with me and that's, and that's how I do that dress. So that's a commitment, but everything else I knew like, okay, it's only going to take me this long to iron it. It travels well, blah, blah, blah. So I think just for me, it was like, it just dialed down the anxiety of, of how much travel I have to do for business.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. So you've gotten a few reps in now because we worked right before your speaking season started in the fall. Yeah. That experience was totally different than what you had had in the past.

Julie Brown: Yeah. I traveled for 14 weeks straight between on the last week of August and the first week of November, I had 14 weeks of travel and it was a markedly different experience knowing that whatever I put in the suitcase was going to look good the next day.

Ellie Steinbrink: So now when you're thinking about the brand, you know, the brand of Julie speaks before we started working together and now the brand you have, how would you define the difference?

Julie Brown” It's interesting. The brand is probably just more authentic on stage. She's not trying so hard, you know, she's like, okay, this works.

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah.

Julie Brown: Right. And like, I will say that part of one of the best parts of working together was the jewelry we picked out, which was also really feminine. Yes. But I was shocked. The necklaces and, and those, I will tell you that, that one particular necklace with the flamingo on it and everything that I wear, I, people stop me. Oh, this is also something I should say. I will be at conferences and people won't know I'm the speaker. So say like, I don't go on till the second day. I'll walk around the first day and women will stop me to talk about my outfit, which never happened before. Like maybe my sneakers, like, oh, great sneakers. I'm like, whatever, but not like the outfit as a whole. And it's been such a great conversation piece with people.

Ellie Steinbrink: Hey, well, if you don't know everyone, she's in networking. And so you use this to your advantage, right? But I think that's amazing. Cause I think again, it just points to the fact that I don't think for you, it's ever been about getting more compliments or getting more praise or, you know, any of that, but there is a different energy that shows up when you start to lean into really what you love and what, you know, how you want to show up. It's just like, I feel like it's, it's, it's not only the clothes, at least in my own experience, when I've seen women like this at conferences or on stage, and it's just, it's their whole being it's yes, it's the outfit, but it's the way they wear it. It's, it's like, you know, what I would have put on you versus another client is, is unique to you and the way that you can only embody that.

And it really is just such a, you know, it makes such a big difference. Okay. I want to, one last thing I want to talk about is I saw on LinkedIn recently that you've named your word of the year as expand. And I love the post and I love the word, and I would love to know how does this work we've done together, the new wardrobe you have support this word for you?

Julie Brown: I mean, well, I think in the most basis of terms, like it gave me more than one outfit to wear on stage. Cause again, I was like, I was just doing like, I was like, okay, I'll wear jeans and sparkly sneakers and a, and a white shirt and a blazer. And yeah, there's one thing to have a signature look, but like every single picture was the same, you know?

And I was like not looking green and anyways, you know? So I think for me, like expanding the, the, the amount of different outfits that I feel comfortable on in, on stage. And you have to understand, like I speak in front of all women audiences. I speak in front of all male audiences. I speak in front of, you know, split audiences. So like, there's a lot of, for me, I feel like there's a lot of things to consider before I get on stage about what that outfit will say to the, to, to the audience. The expand for me, I chose it because I really want to expand my company. I want to expand my reach. I want to expand the people to the number of people that I can impact and help. And feeling comfortable on stage will never not help that, that goal, you know?

Ellie Steinbrink: Yeah. Yeah. And letting everybody see the real you.

Julie Brown: Yeah.

Ellie Steinbrink: Okay. So you brought up about speaking to different audiences and it reminded me that this was something we really had to work on because you do, like you said, sometimes I'm speaking to an audience of all men who are in the construction industry and are literally showing up in their, you know, their boots and their work clothes. And, and I remember you saying, well, I can't just like show up there in my like all dolled up and over the top.

Have you loosened your grip on that? I mean, I think there's always a time and a place for dress for your audience, but I think sometimes it can go to the extreme of where we're bending so far that we sort of lose ourself in order to make the, the audience feel comfortable. Where have you landed on that since we've worked together?

Julie Brown: Well, you know, this is interesting because I just, I just did a predominantly male audience. My last big keynote was a predominantly male audience. And what I did was I wore blue pants and an orange blazer and I wore the Betsy Johnson sandals with them. So it was very conservative till you got to my feet, which is, which is a little bit of a hark back to how I used to, you know, do it was, it was like the blazer and the jeans and then the sparkly sneakers. So for me, it was like, I was like, I still looked really good. But once you got to the feet, it was like, Oh, Oh, there she is.

Ellie Steinbrink: We're breaking some boundaries. And I know you don't think of it this way, but the fact that you're wearing an orange blazer is in and of itself, a very bold move.

Julie Brown: Yeah.

Ellie Steinbrink: I often joke that you're my one and only client who actually has stated that one of her favorite colors is orange. I mean, I love that. I love, and it just, it really just, it's you, it's your whole ethos. So yeah, don't forget that that's a bold, courageous move too. Okay. My last question for you, what would you say to the woman listening, you know, whether she's a speaker or not a leader, highly visible, that is feeling kind of stuck and drained the way you were, why would you not hire an expert for things that you're not an expert at?

Julie Brown: Like, I, I'm not a professional designer. I'm not a professional, like clothier. Like, why did I think that I was supposed to know how all the pieces mixed in match together? And also what was right for my changing body. So I think we need to stop being so hard on ourselves. Like we talked about at the beginning, like, why do we have to do everything? Like if my car breaks, I bring it to a mechanic. I don't get mad at myself for not being able to know how to fix it. Yeah. Honestly, my car breaks. I just traded it. I got a new one.

Ellie Steinbrink: Exactly.

Julie Brown: I ain't got time for that.

Ellie Steinbrink: There's just, there's certain areas where we do allow ourselves to feel guilty. It's weird. It's, it's, I'm sure it's like deep training, you know, about what is supposed to be or is not supposed to be as a woman and what skills we should have and shouldn't have. Thank you so much for joining us today. Of course. As I said, everyone go out and check out Julie. She's a hoot. At least go follow her on LinkedIn, especially if you're in the professional realm. Cause not only are you going to laugh, you're going to learn a whole lot about how to show up and not be so terrified of networking. Hello. I'm raising my hand as an introvert who absolutely hates networking, and she'll give you a totally fresh perspective. But again, thank you, Julie. Thank you for working with me to push the boundaries, trusting yourself. And, I love where we ended. It's continual; it's not done. It's, you know, the continual process. Yeah. Thanks again.

Julie Brown: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Ellie Steinbrink: Well, I certainly hope you found yourself laughing a little bit through that conversation. I know I did, but also found yourself reflecting on some things. What really struck me in my conversation with Julie is how many ways in which we constrict ourselves and what we can wear. And certainly she talked about this in the frame of all of the speaker dress code rules that sometimes can feel so overwhelming and constricting that there really is very little wiggle room to expand out of the box. Or it can feel like that.

Like there's very little wiggle room to push the boundaries. But when in reality, when you open yourself up to questioning these rules, is this really something I need to continue to follow? Is it really something that is going to dissolve my career or dissolve my credibility or dissolve my professionalism?

And I loved how she not only talked about speaker rules, you know, like where's the mic pack go and length of things, but also that she could fully embrace her femininity alongside her edginess and still maintain that professional image that she really wanted. As you're thinking about this episode and reflecting on it, I want to leave you with one question. That question is where have you been holding on too tightly to rules around your dress code?

Maybe just list one or two that feels really confining and I want you today to think, is that a rule that I could push a little? Is it a rule that maybe I don't even need to hold on to? Can I expand my mindset around this? Of course, there will be fears that come up when you expand your mindset around rules just as Julie shared. Can you push through some of that and see what else might come out on the other side? Because I think as Julie shared, these rules and fears can hold us back.

But then when we actually try pushing through to them, you'll be amazed at what's on the other side. With that, thank you for joining in and I can't wait to see you on the next episode. 

Thanks for joining me on The Visibility Shift. If something in today's episode made you pause, rethink, or gave you permission to stop playing small, it would mean so much to me if you'd leave a review at ratethispodcast.com/visibilityshift. Let's make it visible.


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